February 2013 - PSDR - mailman.hamwan.org

Weekly meeting in 1 hour (@7PM PST)
by Bart Kus 12 Feb '13

12 Feb '13

Hello, Just a reminder that our weekly board + development team meeting will be held in 1 hour @ 7PM PST. *Meeting Details* *How* Mumble <http://mumble.sourceforge.net/> voice + text chat software *Where* Connect to server "BartK.us" *When* Tuesdays @ 7:00PM PST If you haven't installed the latest (beta) mumble client and verified you can connect and speak A-OK, this would be a good time for that. :) *Meeting Agenda* 1) The board will vote on the proposed HamWAN Constitution (attached). 2) If Ben is not airborne, he will present details of insurance coverage policy and bylaws research / writing. I believe the constitution leaves a few points to be defined in a bylaws document, although there is no procedural difference in updating either after the constitution is accepted. 3) The board will vote on incurring debt to bring the Cougar Mtn site online. 4) Curt will be asked to head up publicity / marketing / recruitment / use-case research efforts. Flea Market was a near miss, we need someone working in this area. The last point about use-case research is especially important. I would like the engineering work to enable some powerful scenarios for the network's users, but there is no clear picture of what network users want to do since this kind of network doesn't exist yet. Engineering can take guesses, but it'd be good to hear from users too. Talk to EOCs, ARES, RACES, regular digital hams, etc. 5) Flea Market preparedness discussion. What are we missing and who's coming? The 10ft Rohn 25 section is kind of massive. 6) Discussion of open items and who wants to take on what. See the website for open items. I would say the focus right now is on getting things working well enough to serve @ the Flea Market, @ MHDC and on Cougar. So RF problem space is front and center right now. If you can't do RF work directly, perhaps you can help it along by implementing 3D radiation pattern measurement software and figuring out how to publish the results to the web. --Bart

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Constitution
by Rob Salsgiver 12 Feb '13

12 Feb '13

You might want to give some more consideration to a few points here, given how "turf" oriented some aspects of amateur radio (and other organizations) can become. Specifics: Membership is "automatic" to everyone. This should have some entrance criteria of some kind. Not sure what - having a ham license isn't necessarily a better qualifier, and may screen out some valuable folks. Board elections - need to rotate so that one board member comes up each year. The "worst case" scenario you are trying to prevent is a pocket of malcontents coming in with a flood of new members and taking over the board and changing the organization to what they want. Seems extreme but I've seen it. Rotating one each year at least buys time if you do have a group of malcontents to work things out. Our club has 4 officers (pres, vp, secretary, treasurer) that are elected each year, with the Pres and VP allowed to serve 2 consecutive terms. They must be off the board for 1 year before being re-elected to (that) post. We also have 3 director positions that rotate - 1 each year and are elected by membership. Rounding out the group is the immediate past president and a presidentially appointed trustee - the trustee serves continuously until they resign or are removed or pass on. 9 is the total which is too many for this probably, but it demonstrates the idea of retaining a continuity of leadership and preventing absolute chaos if part of the group goes psycho. Elections - will work for now, but as the organization grows you will find you want more time to push the paper of the election process. Director removal - at 3 board members, you will never reach the 75% benchmark to remove one. This only works with 4 or more. PDF of the bylaws of the Snohomish County Hams Club is attached as a reference. It's not perfect, but it does a pretty good job. Rob From: PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org] On Behalf Of Bart Kus Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 9:00 PM To: Puget Sound Data Ring Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Weekly Board & Dev Team Meeting Good call, thanks for the poke. I would have forgotten 1) The board will vote on the proposed HamWAN Constitution (attached). 2) If Ben is not airborne, he will present details of insurance coverage policy and bylaws research / writing. I believe the constitution leaves a few points to be defined in a bylaws document, although there is no procedural difference in updating either after the constitution is accepted. 3) The board will vote on incurring debt to bring the Cougar Mtn site online. 4) Curt will be asked to head up publicity / marketing / recruitment / use-case research efforts. Flea Market was a near miss, we need someone working in this area. The last point about use-case research is especially important. I would like the engineering work to enable some powerful scenarios for the network's users, but there is no clear picture of what network users want to do since this kind of network doesn't exist yet. Engineering can take guesses, but it'd be good to hear from users too. Talk to EOCs, ARES, RACES, regular digital hams, etc. 5) Flea Market preparedness discussion. What are we missing and who's coming? The 10ft Rohn 25 section is kind of massive. 6) Discussion of open items and who wants to take on what. See the website for open items. I would say the focus right now is on getting things working well enough to serve @ the Flea Market, @ MHDC and on Cougar. So RF problem space is front and center right now. If you can't do RF work directly, perhaps you can help it along by implementing 3D radiation pattern measurement software and figuring out how to publish the results to the web. I'll try to send an update on the RF work I've been doing the last 2 days which I haven't published yet. --Bart On 2/11/2013 8:08 PM, Rob Salsgiver wrote: Agenda? <g> Tag, you're it. Rob From: PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org] On Behalf Of Bart Kus Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 10:30 PM To: psdr(a)hamwan.org; board(a)hamwan.org Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] Weekly Board & Dev Team Meeting Hello, In order to better coordinate the various efforts under way right now, HamWAN will begin holding weekly meetings. Since it's important to eat our own dog food, these meetings will be held using communication technology that can easily be used on HamWAN without the Internet. Specifically, text + voice chat facilities will be provided by the Mumble <http://mumble.sourceforge.net/> software package, which is cross-platform. All Board & Dev Team members are required to join, but the meeting is not exclusive, and the invitation is extended to anyone who is interested. Meeting Details How Mumble <http://mumble.sourceforge.net/> voice + text chat software Where Connect to server "BartK.us" When Tuesdays @ 7:00PM PST The inaugural meeting will take place on Feb 12th, 2013. I'll try to send out an agenda the day before. See you all there! --Bart _______________________________________________ PSDR mailing list PSDR(a)hamwan.org http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org

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sector possibility...
by Rob Salsgiver 12 Feb '13

12 Feb '13

Doing some surfing / shopping and stumbled across this. The 120 unit may have some possibilities unless I'm missing something? Rob http://dl.ubnt.com/AirMax5GSectors.pdf

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Weekly Board & Dev Team Meeting
by Bart Kus 11 Feb '13

11 Feb '13

Hello, In order to better coordinate the various efforts under way right now, HamWAN will begin holding weekly meetings. Since it's important to eat our own dog food, these meetings will be held using communication technology that can easily be used on HamWAN without the Internet. Specifically, text + voice chat facilities will be provided by the Mumble <http://mumble.sourceforge.net/> software package, which is cross-platform. All Board & Dev Team members are required to join, but the meeting is not exclusive, and the invitation is extended to anyone who is interested. *Meeting Details* *How** * Mumble <http://mumble.sourceforge.net/> voice + text chat software *Where** * Connect to server "BartK.us" *When** * Tuesdays @ 7:00PM PST The inaugural meeting will take place on Feb 12th, 2013. I'll try to send out an agenda the day before. See you all there! --Bart

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My new favorite website: AT&T Long Lines
by Bart Kus 11 Feb '13

11 Feb '13

<http://long-lines.net/places-routes/index.html> <http://long-lines.net/places-routes/index.html>http://long-lines.net/index.html So much great information. Did you know the horn antennas of 1955 had a 6GHz gain of 43dBi and were tri-banders? (4+6+11GHz) To get an accurate radiation pattern measurement the engineers of yesteryear utilized a pulse measurement technique, which lets you avoid reflections in your readings! http://long-lines.net/tech-equip/radio/BLR1155/403.html How about browsing a nice microwave map of Washington: http://long-lines.net/places-routes/maps/WA76.html Looks like AT&T made many of the same site choices the current HamWAN map has, but decades earlier. I am in awe of what old timey engineers managed to pull off before I was even born. And it wasn't just phone calls, they moved television over that network! --Bart

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Official azimuth radiation patterns published
by Bart Kus 09 Feb '13

09 Feb '13

Hello, Stayed up way too late last night running radiation pattern measurements in the great anechoic outdoors. The new patterns look much healthier than the echo-ridden indoor measures. I was also able to test 2 new antennas. Not sectors, but the 21dBi and 27dBi grids from Laird. All the results are linked at the top of the Antenna Analysis <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Antenna+Analysis&structure=Ham…> page, but here are the direct links: * ARC ARC-VS5818SD1 <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=ARC+ARC-VS5818SD1&structure=Ha…> * Laird SAH58-120-16-WB <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Laird+SAH58-120-16-WB&structur…> * Laird GD5W-21P <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Laird+GD5W-21P&structure=HamWAN> * Laird GD5W-28P <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Laird+GD5W-28P&structure=HamWAN> A few conclusions can be drawn from this official data: 1) The ARC sector is complete nonsense. 2) The Laird sector is lookin fine! The F/B is not as bad as I had feared. Although the "120 deg" beamwidth claim looks to be based on -6dB points, not your typical -3dB points. Strange. I'm still concerned about its -3dB FR @ 5.885GHz. 3) For the $25 price premium over the 21dBi model, I'd say the 27dBi Laird grid is well worth it. I have a 31dBi grid on the way which would only cost $6 more than the 27dBi Laird. 4dB for $6 is a no-brainer. We'll see how it measures though. Next up, before the new antennas arrive for testing, I wanna re-run the frequency response measurements using the outdoor environment and verify that there are no changes in the curve shapes. That will confirm the indoor FR measurement process is not suffering from echo effects. --Bart

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Re: [HamWAN PSDR] HamWAN will be at the Mike & Key Flea Market March 9th
by KL7WM＠aol.com 09 Feb '13

09 Feb '13

I have a section of Rohn 25 We need to talk Daniel Stevens, KL7WM 206 228 9274 In a message dated 2/8/2013 3:39:31 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, me(a)bartk.us writes: We sure don't! :) I'd like a small section of tower, 8 or 10ft to affix the cell site gear to. Rohn 25 would be perfect. It'd be good if it was able to stand on the ground somehow. I have 4 MT radios here that can be used to compose the cell, but more are needed for client access/sale. I'll probably order 4 more tonight. We need some stock of this common gear stuff. I'll order one of those (incredibly expensive) ARC 34dBi dishes and hope it isn't shit like their sector turned out to be. If nothing else it'll look like SRS BSNS on display. Then, after the new sectors arrive and presumably one of them passes acceptance testing, will need to order 2 more of that type of sector. Also, I've increased the flea market registration to 2 tables and 3 helpers. Rob, you're paid for if you show up. My wife suggested getting a banner. _http://www.esigns.com/table-banners/_ (http://www.esigns.com/table-banners/) I'm colorblind with no artistic sense. If someone on list wants to get all fancy, I won't refuse a nice HamWAN banner. :) The tables are 8ft wide, so 28"x96" seems appropriate. Would be cool to "fly the flag" in the background of the cell site. :) --Bart On 02/08/2013 03:12 PM, Rob Salsgiver wrote: Do we have enough available equipment – if not what do we need? I was considering ordering some of my own and it could be used if needed. Rob From: PSDR [_mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org_ (mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org) ] On Behalf Of Bart Kus Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 2:42 PM To: Puget Sound Data Ring Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] HamWAN will be at the Mike & Key Flea Market March 9th Hello, I just reserved a table for HamWAN @ _the flea market_ (http://www.mikeandkey.org/flea.htm) . I would dearly love to have a fully working cell site assembled and running there, and provide folks with access equipment to link up right on the spot. We have exactly 4 weeks to make this happen. 2 weeks after the flea market, HamWAN will be presenting @ the _MicroHAMS Digital Conference_ (http://www.microhams.com/softcontent.aspx?scId=58) . March is shaping up to be a busy month. Dear Board, please attend. Dear Dev Team, please attend too. I've reserved "helper" admission for 2 people. Let me know if you plan to be there or can't make it. Also, thinking of increasing the reservation to 2 tables (16 ft of space). A fully assembled cell site is gonna take up a lot of room, and people will want space to put their laptops down and configure stuff. --Bart _______________________________________________ PSDR mailing list _PSDR(a)hamwan.org_ (mailto:PSDR@hamwan.org) _http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org_ (http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org) _______________________________________________ PSDR mailing list PSDR(a)hamwan.org http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org

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HamWAN will be at the Mike & Key Flea Market March 9th
by Bart Kus 08 Feb '13

08 Feb '13

Hello, I just reserved a table for HamWAN @ the flea market <http://www.mikeandkey.org/flea.htm>. I would dearly love to have a fully working cell site assembled and running there, and provide folks with access equipment to link up right on the spot. We have exactly 4 weeks to make this happen. 2 weeks after the flea market, HamWAN will be presenting @ the MicroHAMS Digital Conference <http://www.microhams.com/softcontent.aspx?scId=58>. March is shaping up to be a busy month. Dear Board, please attend. Dear Dev Team, please attend too. I've reserved "helper" admission for 2 people. Let me know if you plan to be there or can't make it. Also, thinking of increasing the reservation to 2 tables (16 ft of space). A fully assembled cell site is gonna take up a lot of room, and people will want space to put their laptops down and configure stuff. --Bart

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Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Improved radiation pattern software and new antennas on the way
by Bart Kus 08 Feb '13

08 Feb '13

I'd like to identify a set of HamWAN-approved antennas we can use. Ones which meet HamWAN's requirements and pass testing. Any antenna which performs up to the requirements can be accepted. So far, I have not found 1. So we've got a few more candidates on the way. The Laird is not quite out of the running yet, it needs to be outdoor-tested to measure the true backside performance. The Laird is, however, incredibly expensive @ $180/ea. And it has poor frequency response at the high end. Unlikely to be selected. For the time being 5GHz is it. There's plenty of spectrum to grow in there, and when that's all exhausted we can expand to other bands like 3GHz or 10GHz. But I expect 5GHz is here for quite a while, a few years at least. Now, you mentioned Ubiquiti, so if your question was about modems, I'll have to reply in more detail. :) --Bart On 2/8/2013 8:08 AM, steve monsey wrote: > Just curious, seems like you just want to settle on one manufacture ? > Like Ubiquiti? > > Are you just using 5 ghz or 3 ghz as well? > > I agree that not making a line of equipment is the best idea for > something that will last and replaceable. Sometimes you have to do > one-off's for a special installation. Plus you can maybe get a price > break for buying in bulk for the first go around. > > Steve N0FPF > > > > On Feb 7, 2013, at 10:21 PM, Bart Kus <me(a)bartk.us> wrote: > >> Attached are 2 pix of the ARC and 1 pic of the Laird sectors. Excuse >> the mess, these were taken before I re-organized and cleaned up the lab. :) >> >> Excellent point about parasitic reflections. I had not considered that. >> >> And yeah, I'd love to stick with off-the-shelf. Really don't wanna get >> into the business of manufacturing antennas. Wanna build a network! >> >> --Bart >> >> >> On 2/6/2013 10:33 PM, Rob Salsgiver wrote: >>> Bart, >>> >>> Can you send me a photo or two of the internals of one of these sector >>> antennas? I've done some work with 2.4 but not 5.8. I'm curious to >>> know if they are flat panels or if they are contoured (rounded or >>> otherwise shaped). >>> >>> I'm thinking along the lines of your sheet metal shields. Depending on >>> the internal design, I'm wondering if we can't apply some different >>> approaches here. >>> >>> The potential downside of a sheet metal shield is parasitic >>> reflections, unless they are spaced such that they enhance the signal >>> (ala a reflector) as well as shield from adjacent RF. >>> >>> Using it as a reflector then gets me thinking of applying some other >>> geometries -- how about a yagi or log periodic design for 5.8? Given >>> the frequencies involved, it likely would fit into a similar footprint. >>> >>> I need to do some calcs and brainstorming. There's definitely >>> advantages to having off the shelf equipment, and if possible it would >>> be good to launch with standard items if they work, but there may be >>> longer-term advantages to using some of the benefits of our "amateur" >>> roots if we can get them to be stable and reliable. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> *From:*PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org] *On Behalf Of *Bart Kus >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:45 PM >>> *To:* psdr(a)hamwan.org >>> *Subject:* [HamWAN PSDR] Improved radiation pattern software and new >>> antennas on the way >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I've taken some time tonight to improve the radiation pattern >>> measurement software. The algorithm for auto-centering the rotation >>> of the pattern won't be fooled now by the presence of a non-centered >>> peak lobe. Full description of the software function and the software >>> itself have both been published to the Antenna Analysis >>> <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Antenna+Analysis&structure=Ham…> >>> labs page. The radiation pattern for the Laid sector >>> <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Laird+SAH58-120-16-WB&structur…> >>> has been updated and you can see the wonky alignment is now gone! >>> >>> Since neither of these antennas are thrilling performers in the HamWAN >>> Labs tests, a couple more candidates have been added to the Sector >>> Antenna - 120deg >>> <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Sector+Antenna+-+120deg&struct…> >>> component engineering page. A HamWAN community member who wishes to >>> remain anonymous has generously purchased sample antennas of the >>> Teletronics and RF Elements brands for lab testing. They should >>> arrive some time next week. >>> >>> In the meantime, I've had a thought about how to improve F/B ratios in >>> these sector antennas. Using a sheet of aluminum and my sheet metal >>> brake <http://www.harborfreight.com/30-inch-bending-brake-67240.html>, >>> I should be able to manufacture traditional RF shields, like this: >>> >>> VARIA 14-19dBi variable sector antenna 45-120°, 2.4-2.5GHz >>> >>> but without fancy holes or adjustable features. It might be enough to >>> keep that nasty high power adjacent RF out. >>> >>> --Bart >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> PSDR mailing list >>> PSDR(a)hamwan.org >>> http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org >> <mime-attachment> >> <LairdSector1.jpg> >> <ARCSector2.jpg> >> <ARCSector1.jpg> >> <mime-attachment>

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Re: [HamWAN PSDR] annoying banter...
by KL7WM＠aol.com 08 Feb '13

08 Feb '13

Yes but it does have a good coverage area and very high speed Internet Daniel Stevens, KL7WM In a message dated 2/7/2013 4:33:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, me(a)bartk.us writes: Yes. I've spoken @ WWARA already in order to address the repeater owners throughout the Puget Sound. What came of that is that most repeater owners have very little power over their sites when it comes to installing new gear, and are typically (>95%) not the site owners. It's still a viable avenue though in terms of who might be interested in using or supporting such a system, but probably not from the sites-for-HamWAN angle. Perhaps you know more repeater folks, give it a shot! FWARC has expressed the most interest in D-Star over HamWAN for their D-Star system. However, their site is fairly low down, on Graham Hill. --Bart On 02/07/2013 04:06 PM, Rob Salsgiver wrote: Sorry all for the ongoing barrage of emails, but once something starts taking root in the head it’s hard to drive it out….. Has there been any thought given to the angle of marketing HamWAN to repeater owners? Specifically the following two points: 1) Internet based remote control for repeaters 2) Internet connectivity for repeaters (echolink, IRLP, D-Star gateways, etc) Getting mountain-top connections to the ‘net is often difficult enough. If we market right, we may be able to get into sites easier, connect to multiple repeaters per site, make their lives easier, and drive some adoption and expansion through that avenue. Cheers, Rob _______________________________________________ PSDR mailing list _PSDR(a)hamwan.org_ (mailto:PSDR@hamwan.org) _http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org_ (http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org) _______________________________________________ PSDR mailing list PSDR(a)hamwan.org http://mail.hamwan.org/mailman/listinfo/psdr_hamwan.org

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