March 2013 - PSDR - mailman.hamwan.org

Anyone wanna help with an 8 mile microwave test tomorrow?
by Bart Kus 31 Mar '13

31 Mar '13

Hello, As part of confidence-building, I and one other person are going to attempt an 8 mile microwave transmission @ 5.885GHz tomorrow. TX power will be just +10dBm. 30dBi and 32dBi dishes will be used. Projected RX power is -60dBm. Receiver is sensitive down to about -115dBm, which gives us about 55dB of fade margin before the signal is undetectable. This is the first long-range outdoor test to verify all the previous measurements + theory. Assistance would be good, especially if you have a vehicle which can produce 200W or 500W of 120VAC. Picture taking would also be cool, as would operation of UHF comms for coordination (alignment help). Let me know if you'd like to help. I'll likely leave my place around 11AM and we'll go no longer than 6PM. --Bart

3 2

Demo cell site is back up again
by Bart Kus 27 Mar '13

27 Mar '13

For those of you on the Development Team: VPN access to the demo/practice cell site is back up! The site router which was used to glue all the radios together went off to be installed in an Oregon datacenter (and is working beautifully!), but this left the demo cell site in shambles. Two replacement routers have arrived today and one of them has just been cloned with the right config and setup to act as the SiteRouter again. All the VPN accounts should be functional at this time and configuration experiments can resume. So if you need to muck with IPsec/BGP/MPLS or whatever, you're good to go again. Please keep the power levels @ 10mW due to the client proximity. The 2nd router I'll be using to replace my personal core router @ home. This may involve some downtime of the cell site (since it rides on my LAN), but I'll announce it ahead of time. --Bart

1 0

Fwd: Ubiquiti or MikroTik - March News for WISPS
by Bart Kus 27 Mar '13

27 Mar '13

I thought this was interesting. A 3rd party opinion on the MikroTik vs. Ubiquiti debate. As it happens, ISPSupplies' conclusions are pretty well in line with my own on this subject. --Bart -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Ubiquiti or MikroTik - March News for WISPS Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 12:16:26 +0000 From: ISP Supplies <sales(a)ispsupplies.com> Reply-To: ISP Supplies <sales(a)ispsupplies.com> To: *|FNAME|* <me(a)bartk.us> Ubiquiti or MikroTik - March News for WISPS MikroTik or Ubiquiti? Which is best for your WISP? Is this email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser <http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203cc3&id=3639bbcbac…>. <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203…> WISP News - March 2013 Sales: 855-WISP-PRO | http://www.ispsupplies.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ubiquiti or MikroTik? Which is the right solution for your WISP? The answer is easy, both! We are asked this question time and time again, and the best way to answer it is really based on your application, your level of knowledge and willingness to dig deep to learn new things. This month, once again instead of bombarding you with sales on overstocked items and new products, we want to give you information you can use. *1. What is your application, wireless or routing?* Application is one area where we believe there are some clear winners and if we divide that into wireless and routing, it gets even more clear. *Routing* MikroTik is still the winner for routing in our opinion. Ubiquiti's Edge Routers are nice but still need refinement to make them a clear choice for the WISP. *Wireless* Both MikroTik and Ubiquiti have great PtMP and PTP wireless solutions but the differences are in features, tools and ease of use. In the area of tools and features, MikroTik wins. When it comes to ease of use, Ubiquiti is the clear winner. In summary, if you just want to put up wireless and build a network, let someone else handle your routing and do all of this with limited training, use Ubiquiti wireless gear. If you have time to learn something more powerful, use MikroTik. *2. What is your level of knowledge and willingness to learn?* Again, Ubiquiti is the simpler product to learn. The airMAX operating system is web browser based and easy to navigate. We do not recommend building a business based on reading the manuals and not getting formal training, but regardless of your prior experience, we have seen the best success for first time WISP's using Ubiquiti. Since MikroTik has the best routing platform, you aren't out of the woods by simply choosing Ubiquiti for wireless. You will still need a routing platform and MikroTik is one of the best for performance and price point. The learning curve is a bit steeper, but with the proper training you can be running OSPF and creating VLAN's with the best of them. ISP Supplies has dedicated our business to helping WISPS build better, faster and more scalable networks. We are former WISP owners and we understand the challenges you face so instead of offering you a low price guarantee, we offer you fair prices and a knowledgeable staff that can help you be successful. Isn't that the type of service you want to offer to your customers? Ready to take the next step and get some training? If you are ready to take the next step and get some formal training, we have numerous opportunities to do so through our certified training programs. Classes are held monthly, so enroll now and set yourself up for success! <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203…> <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203…> April - MikroTik Essentials - Columbus, Ohio <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d20…> May - MikroTik Advanced Training <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203…> July - Ubiquiti + MikroTik Training <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203…> <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203…> ISP Supplies is MikroTik, Ubiquiti and SAF Certified. We have conducted training for the US Department of Justice, Level(3) Communications, The Smithsonian Institute, John Deere, CenturyLink and many others. Trust us with your network. *Connect With Us!* * Like us on FaceBook <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d20…> * Follow us on Twitter <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d20…> * Watch our blog <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=b934808c37bafa3550d20…> forward to a friend <http://us1.forward-to-friend.com/forward?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203cc3&id=363…> /Copyright © 2013 ISP Supplies, LLC, All rights reserved./ You are receiving this email as a customer of ISP Supplies. *Our mailing address is:* ISP Supplies, LLC 10770 State Highway 30 Suite 200 College Station, Tx 77845 Add us to your address book <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage.com/vcard?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203cc3&id…> unsubscribe from this list <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203…> | update subscription preferences <http://ispsupplies.us1.list-manage2.com/profile?u=b934808c37bafa3550d203cc3…>

1 0

Meeting notes March 26, 2013
by Bart Kus 26 Mar '13

26 Mar '13

OMG I took notes! 1) Oregon edge router is up and running! 2) Paine/Snohomish EOC budget proposal is submitted. Should find out mid-April and then order. 3) Lanbowan 36dBi dish being ordered, will put through its paces. 4) Send me your SSH DSA keys if you need access to the Corvallis router 5) WSDOT declined all participation 6) Reached out to Renton and RECS for participation in the network. Waiting to hear back. 7) Need standard presentation slide deck and fliers. Need to develop a few spec sheets for cell sites + end users. Components, weight, cost, wind load, suppliers, etc. Provide classes of quality (expensive dishes, vs cheap dishes). Ben + David will work on this. 8) Bart working on bylaws. 9) Cory researching IPsec(AH) still and will be implementing in MT hardware. Let me know if you need extra radios to do it. 10) Cory+Ben configuring HamWAN DNS server for Internet-only hosting. 11) Everyone: Work on getting sites. We reviewed 4 good tools to succeed here. This is PRIORITY. --Bart

1 0

Weekly meeting tonight @ 7PM
by Bart Kus 26 Mar '13

26 Mar '13

*Meeting Details* *How* Mumble <http://mumble.sourceforge.net/> voice + text chat software (v1.2.4+, install the beta if needed). Please use a headset or enable Echo Cancellation. *Where* Connect to server "BartK.us" *When* Tuesdays @ 7:00PM PST for 1 hour --Bart

1 0

Meeting tonight @ 7PM
by Bart Kus 19 Mar '13

19 Mar '13

Just a reminder and such, heading home now. --Bart

1 0

How does client authentication work?
by Bart Kus 18 Mar '13

18 Mar '13

Now taking proposals. It's turning out to be a non-trivial thing to implement in a way that's not hijackable, and only allows registered hams onto the network, while not using encryption in prohibited ways. Thoughts? --Bart

3 4

MicroHAMS Digital Conference - March 23, 2013
by Kenny Richards 16 Mar '13

16 Mar '13

I just wanted to put out one final reminder for the MicroHAMS Digital Conference, which is next Saturday.(3/23/13) I will be taking down the registration page on Monday morning, at that point you'll need to register at the door. 73, Kenny, KU7M Event information is available here: http://www.microhams.com/mhdc (Here is the original announcement) I'm happy to announce the six annual MicroHAMS Digital Conference! The event is scheduled for March 23, 2013 and will again be held on the Microsoft campus, located in Redmond, WA. The agenda this year is a little different then previous years, rather then covering a wide variety of topics, it is focus on digital networking. We have talks about two local efforts which are currently underway and are leveraging off the shelf wireless networking technology for Amateur radio. The NW-MESH effort is a spin-off of the ARRL HSMM program, which has been getting lots of traction the last couple months. The HamWAN project is attempting to provide a high speed wireless backbone for the greater Seattle area and we'll get an update on its status. Additionally the guys from NWDigitalRadio will be back to give us an update on the very cool UDK56K digital transceiver, which was one of the coolest things announced at Dayton last year. (And we got a sneak peak at MHDC last year) Finally we'll get a run down of interesting things you can do with the Raspberry Pi, which is being leveraged all over ham radio since its introduction last year. Because of space limitations and parking requirements on the Microsoft campus, we are strongly suggesting pre-registering for the event. Registration is $30.00 if done prior to the event and will be $35.00 at the door. We have a web-based sign-up form (details below) and have arranged pre-payment via the Paypal service. (No Paypal account is necessary) In addition to the presentations, a demo area will be setup along side the conference space and door prizes will be given away. Event Details Date: March 23, 2013 Location: Redmond, WA (on the Microsoft campus) Time: 8:30 to 17:00+ Lunch: Sub sandwiches (provided) After Event: Pizza Gathering (local pizza place, to be named later) Cost: $30 if pre-registered and $35 at the door Registration Available Now! (See the site) Agenda Available on the site (http://www.microhams.com/mhdc)

1 0

Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Mesh backbone
by Bart Kus 16 Mar '13

16 Mar '13

KY9K de AE7SJ Awaiting your response, but I'll address Gerard's comments here since he's waited quite a while. On 3/14/2013 12:01 AM, Gerard Hickey wrote: > > First of all, (Bart I am not trying to start a fight, just making an > observation) No one is trying to start a fight, but we do have inherently contentious issues to discuss. So let's keep a cool head and keep the communication going for the good of the community. > HamWAN is not a mesh network. It is an architected network with links > (both real and planned) spread out throughout the region. This is where we hit the inevitable confusion over the phrase "mesh network" which I addressed at the top of my first response so there wouldn't be any such confusion. Let me find it ... -=[ QUOTE ]=- First, let's speak the same language. There's a lot of confusion around the word "MESH". I'm also not sure why it's always capitalized. It's not an acronym as far as I know. The term "mesh network" describes nothing more than the logical topology of a network. There's a really good write-up on this at the wikipedia page <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking>. I'm pretty sure that when you (and others on this email) use the phrase "mesh network" it is not the wikipedia definition you're intending. It means something different, including: 1) Using a common RF channel 2) Promiscuous neighbor discovery + association 3) Automatic IP configuration based on MAC 4) Nearly open node authentication 5) Omnidirectional operation 6) WDS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system>-style operation These are the typical traits of a SeattleWireless <http://seattlewireless.net/>style mesh network (which, BTW, has been attempting to bootstrap itself for the last 13 years). This type of definition of "mesh network" is quite a different animal from the canonical mesh network definition (wikipedia's, derived from network theory). The reason I want to make the distinction clear is that nearly all large networks in the world are indeed mesh networks, but nearly none of them possess the qualities of 1-6. So when I say something like "HamWAN <https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php>is a mesh network", I want it to be clear that I'm referring to the network topology only (the wikipedia definition). I'm not sure what is the right word to describe the other type of network; perhaps capitalizing all the letters is a good differentiator after all. :) -=[ /QUOTE ]=- > Two of the qualities of a mesh network is self-healing and zero > configuration. So, admittedly I did pull the list of the above 6 properties out of my butt. It's my best guess. Is there actually a formal list somewhere? Please provide it. I don't think there's actually any clear divide between MESH or not, it's more like a spectrum of features that are there or not. I would argue the "zero configuration" claim is not actually true. There's configuration in MESH nodes, it's just stored in the node router, much as it will be in HamWAN client routers. You set things like frequency, bandwidth, SSID. In fact, as I understand it, there's usually a custom firmware that's uploaded which comes with I don't know how many settings that I'm guessing are set "just right" so that things work nicely. So here, we're not so different, as both client router devices will have a config set. The other way I can interpret this is that once you get your fully configured client router device, you simply attach it to an antenna and it finds and connects to the wireless network. This is exactly the scenario we're enabling for HamWAN as well, it's not unique to NW-MESH. OK, maybe one slight difference: in the HamWAN case there will be user credentials you enter into the router for it to authenticate onto the network. But isn't there some OLSR key in NW-MESH? I'm really not up to speed on that as much as I should be. > Yes, HamWAN does have self-healing properties but it is an engineered > healing mechanism rather than a intrinsic part of the technology. I'm failing to understand the difference between "engineered" and "intrinsic" here. If we require that HamWAN run OSPF, this becomes an intrinsic property of HamWAN. OLSR is REALLY close to OSPF. I would say in the self-healing aspects, the networks are not very different at all. > I also can not just by the same hardware that HamWAN is using, turn it > on and point it to a HamWAN point of presence and have it work. There > are specific network and routing parameters that need to be set in > order to come up on the network. I addressed this "zero config" claim above, but do correct me if I'm wrong. > Just the same as if I have a configured HamWAN installation, I could > not move it to another part of the region, point it to another point > of presence and be back on the network (actually there is one or two > ways, but it makes the routing butt ugly). This is actually one of the scenarios we're definitely enabling. If you have a static IP or subnet, it will follow you around on the network no matter what sector you connect to. In one of my previous replies I also described how that static (and publicly routable!) address(es) can follow you to partner networks as well through use of VPN peering. Nice, ya? :) This is why we're using beefy routers, cuz we expect the routing tables to be large. > > With these statements, I am just trying to provide a clearer > distinction that Bart started in the second or third email of this > thread. By no means am I trying to elevate one technology or the other > as a superior technology. I think that there is plenty of room for > every one to experiment and play with the various technologies. I whole-heartedly encourage any activity which gets hams playing with more modern digital stuff. The whole concept of "superior" or "best" is relative to your goals. That's why I'm trying to get some sense out of the NW-MESH crowd of what the goals really are. A mission statement or something. Like I've said, I think our goals are actually pretty close in most areas, and it's the differences I'd like to explore to see if we can minimize them or respect them and work on a peering model. If we develop a clear understanding of each others' goals, only then we can begin the technical work necessary to align the networks together. > > I have stated since I first heard Bart speak about the HamWAN project > last year at Summer Gathering that it works very well as a backbone > technology. I think it compliments the NW-MESH work very well in the > sense that it can tie together various NW-MESH networks and provide > the backbone between them. And NW-MESH provides an economical way for > hams to participate in a community network. The economics of onboarding to HamWAN (~$200) vs. NW-MESH (~$30) is a fair point. I can envision a neighborhood cluster of $30 nodes sharing a $200 uplink. But for this to become reality, we must agree on how to align. I'm starting to sound like a broken record. :) The initial thinking of "just give us a tunnel" is a raw deal for HamWAN, so we must work harder to strike a better balance. I'd like HamWAN clients and MESH clients to be mutually directly addressable, for one. I have other concerns about route injection into HamWAN, client authentication on NW-MESH and potential collisions with people's RFC1918 space networks since HamWAN does intend to announce routes into people's home networks. I'd also like to understand the QoS, default gateway, DNS, IPsec and IPv6 stories. There's a LOT of work to sort out. Let's not waste time in jumping to it. > >> Do you have a favorite low-noise public meeting location with power >> + wifi? Starbucks is sounding likely. > > I have never seen a Starbucks be low-noise. Anyone of them I have ever > been is has always been fairly loud with all the sound reverberating > of every flat surface (I swear that every Starbucks employee is taught > to bang pots on every surface behind the counter). I am sure that I > can be proven wrong as I am not a coffee drinker and do not visit > Starbucks that often. > > What I will offer is conference rooms at ebay in Redmond. We have > plenty of white boards and projectors / 60 monitors for presenting so > that everyone does not have to crowd around one laptop. We can meet > pretty much most nights or weekends except for Tuesdays and the 2nd > and 4th Monday of the month. This Friday and Saturday is also out > since I will be at the Cascadia IT conference. I will also be in > California the week of 3/25. Beyond that I think I can pretty much > make anything else work. I'm game. Since I work in Redmond, I can be available there any weekday (after work), and am willing to make weekend trips whenever others can do likewise. Let's get the ball rolling here. During the first meeting(s) whoever is attending should be prepared to discuss their goals and philosophy about these networks. --Bart > > 73. > -- > Gerard Hickey / WTØF IRLP:3067/Echolink:529661 > hickey(a)kinetic-compute.com <mailto:hickey@kinetic-compute.com> > 425-395-4554 > >

2 1

HamWAN Response to FCC NPRM 13-22
by Bart Kus 14 Mar '13

14 Mar '13

For those unfamiliar with the issue, we are dealing with the FCC removing protections of Amateur Radio spectrum in the 5GHz band. I have attached the exact (lengthy) FCC publication which announces this intention. Page 6 shows the graphical view of what they're proposing. Paragraph 97 on page 31 covers details of U-NII-4 rules, which sums up to it's OK to run high power, and it's OK to run it outdoors. This is big trouble for amateur radio in this band, as amateurs will be denied entry onto sites that use this spectrum for unlicensed but commercial reasons. We cannot compete with the money changing hands between commercial WISPs and site owners. Below is what I've drafted as a response to this proposed ruling. Please read it over and comment. We only have a few weeks to file the response and generate popular support to sway the FCC's opinion. Please spread the word through the amateur radio community. I have posted this message on our website at: https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=HamWAN+Response+to+FCC+NPRM+13… for easy sharing with others. *HamWAN Response to FCC NPRM 13-22* The new U-NII-4 band allocation and U-NII-3 25MHz expansion for unlicensed users will cause many problems for Amateur Radio networks operating in that spectrum.I would like to point the commission to an example of one such band plan for the HamWAN network: https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Spectrum+Allocation&structure=… To summarize the spectrum here textually, it is: Guard Band: 5.835-5.845GHz Channel 3 @ 240 degrees azimuth: 5.845-5.865GHz Guard Band: 5.865-5.875GHz Channel 2 @ 120 degrees azimuth: 5.875-5.895GHz Guard Band: 5.895-5.905GHz Channel 1 @ 0 degrees azimuth: 5.905-5.925GHz This arrangement allows co-existence of Amateur Radio digital networks on high up and densely populated radio sites, alongside commercial wireless service providers. It has been HamWAN's experience that site owners, when deliberating Amateur Radio admission onto such sites, are primarily concerned about the impact to these unlicensed commercial wireless service providers.So even though Amateur Radio licensing in the 5.65-5.925GHz range technically allows priority access to these frequencies for amateurs, the reality of the situation is the exact opposite.Financial benefit to tower site owners is the true arbiter of spectrum usage at prominent sites.Amateurs have no chance of competing with commercial spectrum interests in this band.The U-NII-4 allocation, and the 25MHz U-NII-3 expansion effectively deny access to the frequencies for amateur usage at sites required for network creation. Given that there is great momentum behind deploying these free-to-use amateur networks right now, this will force the amateur community into a contentious position with the unlicensed commercial users of the spectrum, particularly at popular tower sites.Amateurs will be forced to use the only tool left available to them, and that is to file complaints of interference against the unlicensed users until their operations at popular sites are either shut down or moved to different spectrum. HamWAN would like to achieve a peaceful co-existence with existing wireless network providers, by leveraging the amateur portion of the 5GHz spectrum as much as possible, before opportunistically sharing the rest of the U-NII spectrum.This view of cooperation is shared by other amateur organizations. In summary, please consider the value that non-commercial microwave networks delivered by amateurs provide to their communities, and please revert the U-NII-4 allocation along with the 25MHz U-NII-3 expansion.We do not oppose the other changes in NPRM 13-22. Signed, Bart Kus HamWAN Chairman

1 1