Dear Steve and Nigel, I said it before. I'll say it again. Thank you. I emailed moreinfo@freewave.com asking about tree piercing hardware with about a mile range. I'll try to let you know if enlightenment ensues. So, Kingsley On 07/13/2021 17:04, Nigel Vander Houwen wrote:
Excellent commentary Steve,
As with most things, we end up summarizing/simplifying a bit. You are correct, there are other options that expand a bit beyond 1200/9600 baud for the lower bands. Though as you’ve noted there are drawbacks, some of which are substantial compromises we don’t want to make.
We don’t want to be windows only, a license key could be considered though isn’t ideal. And 25kbps is an improvement on 1200/9600 baud, but doesn’t really get up to our multi-megabit goals/tagline.
With regards to 900MHz, you are also correct that there are a number of vendors out there. We’ve tried a very small number, and had poor results. We’re happy to hear if folks have real world experience with specific things working, but we can’t test every conceivable device ourselves. Additionally we’ve seen a number of these sorts of devices/companies that are unsuitable for our market. Price is above what we think is what we want to deploy or what we think users will be willing to pay, or the company being uninterested in working with us (or Hams in general). Of course, these concerns are in addition to the earlier bits about platform compatibility, real world performance, etc.
I have not personally tried FreeWave, I don’t see a speed reference in their marketing on the web site, but as always if you have real world experience with a product you think would further the goals, please do let us know.
As always, excellent input Steve, Thanks!
Nigel
On Jul 13, 2021, at 4:45 PM, Steve Stroh <steve.stroh@gmail.com> wrote:
I understand and agree with PSDR's focus on "core mission of building and supporting the high speed backbone and access". That's a noble and challenging mission that requires focus.
But it's inaccurate to dismiss systems that use lower frequency spectrum such as 440-450 MHz as merely "1200/9600 AX.25" as the best that can be done. One example is VARA FM which can do 25 kbps in a conventional 20 kHz VHF / UHF radio channel. Yes, there are issues such as it being proprietary, requires Windows, payment of a license key for best performance, etc. But it works, and performance is FAR better than "1200/9600 AX.25".
It's also inaccurate to dismiss all systems that operate in 902-928 systems as "performance as abysmal" due to "interference is prevalent". For example, one vendor of robust systems for 902-928 MHz is FreeWave Technologies, whose key technology is Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS). It's slower, but FHSS is far more robust than DSSS that Wireless ISP systems that operate in 902-928 MHz that do operate poorly in the presence of congestion.
Thanks,
Steve N8GNJ
On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 2:44 PM Nigel Vander Houwen <nigel@nigelvh.com <mailto:nigel@nigelvh.com>> wrote:
Kingsley, and others,
Since it was brought up, I’ll add a quick note here. Trees in the path has been a known hiccup that we’ve hoped for a magic resolution to, but one has not been forthcoming. We did some testing with 900MHz radios, but interference there is prevalent, and performance was abysmal. We chose not to purse that thread further.
One could potentially build a relay, but operating on the lower bands means bandwidth restrictions by rules, and by competition for spectrum. You’d be effectively tying 1200/9600 AX.25 to the network. Folks are of course welcome to do so, but in terms of HamWAN itself doing it, that feels to me like reinventing the wheel, and I believe that gets too in the weeds away from our core mission of building and supporting the high speed backbone and access.
So, trees and such remains on our minds, but currently without any good solutions that are performant, and align with HamWAN’s goals.
Thanks, Nigel
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