Nigel, Thanks for the reply. The Oregon group (oregonhamwan.com) will be meeting on November 10th (9am-12) to discuss organizing efforts. Additionally, identify possible sector locations in Portland, OR and possibly Vancouver, WA. The interest in this area is huge with many people waiting for action. I have learned this past month, local radio clubs had purchased equipment in CY2014 to deploy when the Larch Mountain connection was completed. I attend the Clark County Amateur Radio Club (CCARC) digital group meetings in Vancouver, WA. They are discussing pilot projects, funding, and other aspects for the State of Washington. The idea is to have a Northern and Southern route in Washington for the emergency communications. I understand your concerns about limited resources and staffing to help in these efforts. However, I would like to offer a solution to the problem. If PSDR could work with a small group of technical and strategic members of the PDX/Vancouver team, we could help each other. In the military we called it "Train the Trainers". We could help create procedures, documentation, and other artifacts that helps everyone involved. I hope your group will see the benefit of working together with others to deploy workable solutions for emergency communications. We hams are very talented and have time to help. Please discuss this topic at your next board meeting. Thanks Scott, N7DOD ----- Original Message ----- From: Nigel Vander Houwen <nigel@nigelvh.com> To: Scott J. Burrows <sburrows97211@comcast.net> Cc: Hamwan Network Ops Operations <netops@hamwan.org>, PSDR <PSDR@hamwan.org>, Tom Hayward <tom@tomh.us> Sent: 10/29/2018 8:31:15 PM Subject: Re: [Netops] Oregon and Washington HamWAN Scott, To start, thank you for the feedback. I’ll see if I can form some responses to your notes below. Please note that for now these are my opinions and perspectives. I am on the board, and I am a long time network admin for the Puget Sound network, but much of this covers topics that haven’t really been formalized. With regards to Oregon+Washington, the Puget Sound team is stretched thin. We’ve got a number of new sites and growth opportunities in our region, and we’re having to pretty severely prioritize work based on very limited crew availability, particularly climbers. I don’t think we’re in a good position to “take charge” of getting Oregon deployed too. We’re more than happy to coordinate work for RF links, and provide as much technical support as we can, but I’m going to venture to say that local folks are going to need to get the boots on the ground work done. Along these lines, HamWAN as an organization has always been set up that it *shouldn’t* be reliant on us. HamWAN is a standard that anyone can go and build. You noted some of these sister networks before. Tampa, Memphis, (2x) BC, Spokane, are all set up by other folks who were interested. Depending on the situation, they have coordinated with us more or less. “HamWAN Oregon” would be the same, if we can link via RF, that’s fantastic, but that isn’t a requirement for getting a local instance going down there. With regards to documentation, you are correct, it is lacking, and it’s a known issue. We’ve had some folks volunteer to help, but you are also more than welcome to help too. We’ve recently improved some of the tooling to make editing the documentation easier (thanks Tom). If you are, please let us know. Aligned with both the “sister networks” and “documentation” topics, HamWAN.org isn’t always the clearest as to what represents the “standard” that applies to everyone, and what is just of interest/specific to the Puget Sound network, since it started here, and Puget Sound is the flagship. Again, it’s been a known shortfall, waiting for some improvement. As chairman of the board, I often encourage representatives from our sister networks to run for the board as our yearly elections come around. Sometimes we get some, and sometimes we don’t. People everywhere are busy, and most of the folks running these networks aren’t retired and have their regular jobs, families, and other drains on their time in addition to the hobby of HamWAN. I look forward to getting a representative from the Oregon sister network in the not too distant future. So, the short answer here, and again this is my opinion, is that HamWAN is structured so that local teams can build their own, and the common standard allows for clients to move from place to place, and interoperation to be easy. Oregon will need a local team to head the operations down there, and the Puget Sound folks will be pleased to work with them to help get things off the ground. Thanks, Nigel On Oct 29, 2018, at 18:31, Scott J. Burrows <sburrows97211@comcast.net> wrote: Hello, I'm curious, do the PSDR folks in Seattle have a plan for integrating both Oregon and Washington into their existing HamWAN network? I have talked to folks within Washington State about their costing estimates and deployment strategies of their HamWAN initiative. The proposed effort discussed deploying HamWAN technology both for the Northern and Southern routes of the state. Earlier this month, the Clark County ARES/RACES group submitted a "2019 Grant Request Proposal" to the Clark Regional Emergency Service Agency to build out a prototype client station at the county EOC. Also, the folks in Oregon have secured a large grant (possibly $30,000 dollar) for HamWAN and will be discussing HamWAN deployments this year. They are organizing teams for fund raising, network administration, site installation, mentorship, and strategic planning. Much of the talk in the IRC group has been about technical suggestions for minor technical problems. I have not encountered any serious discussions about large implementation efforts in expanding the HamWAN network, although perhaps that is occurring via another method. The Memphis, Tampa Bay, and British Columbia seem to be small regional implementations in distant states/provinces. However, I have not seen any serious discussions about statewide strategic and tactical implementations of HamWAN (i.e. Washington and Oregon). In my experience, technology folks get fixated on the nuts-and-bolts of the network technology and forget about strategic leadership, management, and formal documentation. Much of the PSDR website has not been updated in years. I regularly hear comments at digital meetings where folks are interested in HamWAN, but are waiting for more specific information. This makes large scale deployments extremely difficult if you have to email the HamWAN Network Operations folks every day, assuming they have time to respond. I understand that the HamWAN folks in Seattle are busy with day jobs and unable to respond immediately to all questions. However, if the PSDR leadership team was to reach out to the larger audience, I am sure they will find many talented folks to help with most aspect of HamWAN. Hopefully this message will not be considered slamming the HamWAN folks in Seattle. Please don't shoot the messenger. The technical folks (Tom Hayward and Nigel Vander Houwen) have been extremely responsive and helpful. I respect the vision and work that PSDR volunteers have done to date. If you talk to your customer base, you might be surprised the help you may get. Thanks Scott, N7DOD _______________________________________________ Netops mailing list Netops@hamwan.org http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/netops

On 10/29/18 11:31 PM, Nigel Vander Houwen wrote:

HamWAN is a standard that anyone can go and build. You noted some of these sister networks before. Tampa, Memphis, (2x) BC, Spokane, are all set up by other folks who were interested. Depending on the situation, they have coordinated with us more or less. “HamWAN Oregon” would be the same, if we can link via RF, that’s fantastic, but that isn’t a requirement for getting a local instance going down there.

And it's a basic standard at that, which is a good thing. HamWAN Tampa run things a bit differently, using a bridged network vs. routed at the AP level. We've also had a number of back and forth issues with the DSRC users, who tend to not be competent when it comes to radio engineering. I'd point out the OPP option too if you can't get good/free peering in Oregon. We're working on a second IP connection here in Tampa Bay for redundancy. The largest thing you need is a good local group of people who understand the technology involved. Might be a good idea to get a tour of some of the Seattle infrastructure by some of these people. If you're new to networking and IP, you're going to get up to speed really fast, so it's better if you have people who know it to mentor your group. Wishing you the best of luck from Tampa Bay HamWAN. 73's -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net

Awesome … thanks!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Salsgiver <rob@nr3o.com> To: 'Scott J. Burrows' <sburrows97211@comcast.net>, 'Hamwan Network Ops Operations' <netops@hamwan.org>, 'Nigel Vander Houwen' <nigel@nigelvh.com>, 'PSDR' <PSDR@hamwan.org>, 'Tom Hayward' <tom@tomh.us> Sent: 10/29/2018 8:56:28 PM Subject: RE: [Netops] Oregon and Washington HamWAN Scott, I see as I’m nearing the end of writing this that Nigel has also responded, so take this with a grain of salt <g>. Rather than re-write, I’ll simply finish and contribute to the discussion. ------------------------------------------------- There have always been plans to carry HamWAN from Oregon to B.C., and the current map shows the progression to date, with coverage from Larch Mtn (near Portland) to Triangle in Victoria. The efforts of the first 3-5 years have largely been geared toward establishing a footprint to operate from, get the HamWAN “brand” and concept established, and encourage use and participation. As you likely know, getting “in” to key sites to build such a network doesn’t happen overnight. Some sites have literally been years in the “making”. The primary “hands on” work of building HamWAN to date has largely been done by its primary creators, who in the last 12-18 months have each had other facets of their lives take front seat. In the last 6-8 months we’ve seen an influx of new Board members and admins who have stepped forward to help continue HamWAN forward into its next phase. In the last couple of months things have started to move again, but it has taken some time for new folks to get familiar with things, learn from their mistakes, and to absorb what they can from the “old guard” when they have time to share their wisdom. As far as a “master plan” to integrate Oregon and Washington, I am not aware of any such plan per-se. I know there have been sidebar conversations between folks here and there about getting across the river, but I don’t know who with or how far they’ve gone. That said, there is nothing to keep Oregon folks from setting up a HamWAN of their own, separate from what is being done here in Puget Sound, and similar to the efforts you’ve noted in Memphis, Tampa Bay, etc. There are some aspects that might benefit from a combined effort, but it can proceed independently. HamWAN is a set of standards, and the various HamWAN implementations around the country share those connectivity and design standards. You are right that IRC is not much used for strategic planning. It is mostly used for day to day support, brainstorming, and problem solving. In the last year or two there hasn’t been as much on the strategic planning aspects as the primary movers of the effort simply haven’t had the time. With new board members and admins, there have been several conversations about revising documentation, planning new sites, and essentially those elements you would expect to happen to help continue the program’s development. Your message is timely and it fits well with some of the similar discussions going on between the new and old admins and board members. We are at the stage where we have some good new folks involved, but we are moving through the process of getting new up to speed with the “old”, getting new people to take over tasks no longer able to be supported by the creators, etc, etc. We have 8+ additional sites we are looking to implement at this time, and numerous client sites as well. Where we are today is a necessary step in both the development and continuation of HamWAN. The steps we take today to get the current generation of admins and Board members up to speed should help “round out” the documentation and processes for bringing the next generation(s) on as well. Congrats on the interest and securing the funding. I look forward to working with you and seen how things go forward. I won’t have all of the answers, but I’ll do my best to help things along. Cheers, Rob Salsgiver – NR3O From: Netops [mailto:netops-bounces@hamwan.org] On Behalf Of Scott J. Burrows Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 6:32 PM To: Hamwan Network Ops Operations; Nigel Vander Houwen; PSDR; Tom Hayward Subject: [Netops] Oregon and Washington HamWAN Hello, I'm curious, do the PSDR folks in Seattle have a plan for integrating both Oregon and Washington into their existing HamWAN network? I have talked to folks within Washington State about their costing estimates and deployment strategies of their HamWAN initiative. The proposed effort discussed deploying HamWAN technology both for the Northern and Southern routes of the state. Earlier this month, the Clark County ARES/RACES group submitted a "2019 Grant Request Proposal" to the Clark Regional Emergency Service Agency to build out a prototype client station at the county EOC. Also, the folks in Oregon have secured a large grant (possibly $30,000 dollar) for HamWAN and will be discussing HamWAN deployments this year. They are organizing teams for fund raising, network administration, site installation, mentorship, and strategic planning. Much of the talk in the IRC group has been about technical suggestions for minor technical problems. I have not encountered any serious discussions about large implementation efforts in expanding the HamWAN network, although perhaps that is occurring via another method. The Memphis, Tampa Bay, and British Columbia seem to be small regional implementations in distant states/provinces. However, I have not seen any serious discussions about statewide strategic and tactical implementations of HamWAN (i.e. Washington and Oregon). In my experience, technology folks get fixated on the nuts-and-bolts of the network technology and forget about strategic leadership, management, and formal documentation. Much of the PSDR website has not been updated in years. I regularly hear comments at digital meetings where folks are interested in HamWAN, but are waiting for more specific information. This makes large scale deployments extremely difficult if you have to email the HamWAN Network Operations folks every day, assuming they have time to respond. I understand that the HamWAN folks in Seattle are busy with day jobs and unable to respond immediately to all questions. However, if the PSDR leadership team was to reach out to the larger audience, I am sure they will find many talented folks to help with most aspect of HamWAN. Hopefully this message will not be considered slamming the HamWAN folks in Seattle. Please don't shoot the messenger. The technical folks (Tom Hayward and Nigel Vander Houwen) have been extremely responsive and helpful. I respect the vision and work that PSDR volunteers have done to date. If you talk to your customer base, you might be surprised the help you may get. Thanks Scott, N7DOD