Getting connected to HamWAN
Hey everyone! HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options. 1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water. 2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine. 3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think. Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes? As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition? Thanks for any advice with this! Jesse KJ7YLS
It all depends on the distance involved. If you are talking a few blocks (less than a half a mile), you should get through some limited amount of leaves. I’ve gone 0.6 miles testing with some shrubs in the way, but that’s the limit I’ve found. I’ve not tried through glass, so can’t speak to that. If it is totally clear, plain, glass, you should get some performance. If there is any kind of tinting, eco-surfaces, etc., forget it. Wood is worse than leaves, maybe 600 to 1000 feet. For anything longer, you need true line of sight (you look through binoculars and see the other end of the shot). There is also the Fresnel zone, a somewhat cigar shaped elliptical, narrow at the ends and wider in the middle. For best results, there should be no obstructions in the Fresnel zone (not just in the basic direct LOS). You can find Fresnel zone calculators on line. I have found the Dynadish5 to be the best choice for shots up to maybe 10 or 15 miles. Beyond that you will want the mANT30 dish with proper routerboard. However, I am aware of at least two shots where the Dynadish outperformed the mANT30 on shots over 25 miles. The higher gain really matters on the long shots. The LHG5 is okay for perhaps 5 miles (with clear LOS). Carl, N7KUW From: PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> On Behalf Of Jesse Victors via PSDR Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:51 AM To: psdr <psdr@hamwan.org> Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] Getting connected to HamWAN Hey everyone! HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options. 1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water. 2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine. 3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think. Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes? As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition? Thanks for any advice with this! Jesse KJ7YLS
When I first got my HamWAN setup (32" reflector w/ a Microtik router) in February of some year in the past, I aimed it out a 2nd story window (double-paned glass) to the HamWAM Paine Field (actually, Snohomish County DEM) node, 5 miles away. Worked fine, so I mounted the dish on the roof. Starting in July, over that month, reception gradually dropped from good to marginal to non-existent. Reception didn't come back until the next January. This pattern repeated for the next three years, at which time I gave up. We never did find the cause. Seasonal foliage didn't seem to match the pattern. Good luck! On 2021-05-28 09:51, Jesse Victors via PSDR wrote:
Hey everyone!
HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options.
1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water.
2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls <https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls> At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine.
3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think.
Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes?
As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition?
Thanks for any advice with this!
Jesse KJ7YLS
Jesse,I am running a DynaDish5 mounted on a 20' mast LOS to Haystack 28.02 miles. My location is only 3.8 miles from Paine but terrain is in the way. 73,Drew, KG7SXF Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Jesse Victors via PSDR <psdr@hamwan.org> Date: 5/28/21 9:52 AM (GMT-08:00) To: psdr <psdr@hamwan.org> Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] Getting connected to HamWAN Hey everyone!HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options.1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water.2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine.3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think.Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes?As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition?Thanks for any advice with this!JesseKJ7YLS
You're unlikely to make it to SnoDEM (Paine). There's plenty of terrain in your way, as Drew points out. You are likely to make it to Haystack with a tripod mounted on the roof, as shown in the signal path here: Good luck! --Bart On 5/28/2021 11:32 AM, kg7sxf wrote:
Jesse,
I am running a DynaDish5 mounted on a 20' mast LOS to Haystack 28.02 miles.
My location is only 3.8 miles from Paine but terrain is in the way.
73,
Drew, KG7SXF
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Jesse Victors via PSDR <psdr@hamwan.org> Date: 5/28/21 9:52 AM (GMT-08:00) To: psdr <psdr@hamwan.org> Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] Getting connected to HamWAN
Hey everyone!
HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options.
1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water.
2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls <https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls> At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine.
3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think.
Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes?
As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition?
Thanks for any advice with this!
Jesse KJ7YLS
_______________________________________________ PSDR mailing list PSDR@hamwan.org http://mail.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
Hi Jessie, I've seen the responses so far and I think you deserve a little more. 5 GHz requires unobstructed Line of Sight (LoS) this means if you can't see it, you can't work it (reliably). While it is wireless and penetrates through things, the process for going through things causes signal distortion, degradation, attenuation, fading, and multipath. All bad things when dealing with data over the air. Also, not sure what your planned use would be, but HAMWAN isn't your typical internet service provider. Out of your options #1 seems the best, but if those windows are tinted, then, you are SOL. The LHG HP5 is a great choice: MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: LHG HP5<https://mikrotik.com/product/RBLHG-5HPnD> You will likely desire a mounting option: MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: solidMOUNT<https://mikrotik.com/product/solidmount> I recommend Streakwave MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW (streakwave.com)<https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-rblhg-5hpnd-xl-5ghz-lhg-27dbi-802-11an-2x2-row> This is the high-power version for $81 MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG (streakwave.com)<https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-solidmount-advanced-pole-mount-adapter-for-lhg>: Mount for $27.55 You will need to email a copy of your amateur license to William Book William.Book@streakwave.com<mailto:William.Book@streakwave.com> to prove you're a ham. Super easy to work with. Shipping is where they will get you, so be ready for that. My club runs 3 dishes, all purchased from Streakwave with the help of Bill. Feel free to reach out direct if you need anything else. Jamie Hughes WA7JH Phone: (360) 340-8886<tel:+13603408886> From: PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> On Behalf Of Jesse Victors via PSDR Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:51 AM To: psdr <psdr@hamwan.org> Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] Getting connected to HamWAN Hey everyone! HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options. 1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water. 2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.qrz.com%2Fdb%2Fkj7yls&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3304a5184ed24c1fad6c08d921f8ea6e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637578175237522509%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5xMsIP5GX5dWJYB5p6ypVv97hVe52MvZaZb%2FOeWxc3s%3D&reserved=0> At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine. 3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think. Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes? As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition? Thanks for any advice with this! Jesse KJ7YLS
Thanks Jamie! I heard about HamWAN several months ago, but I thought about realistic options in connecting to it after getting my license. I'm aware that's its not an ISP, its an interesting data ring for fallback/emergency communications, APRS Internet bridges, connecting the repeaters used in Puget Sound Repeater Group, and other traffic in line with Part 97 rules. It interests from a technical standpoint and my main use case is connecting to the remote cameras discussed on the homepage and learning the process of how to set up a point-to-point link. I might be able to connect my node to my 20TB RAID array and provide storage, if there's such a need after I get connected. I appreciate you posting the links and running through some of the procedures there, much appreciated. I'll look into my options and see what the best mounting solution might be. Certainly a high-gain dish is less tolerant of a wobbly mast than an HF dipole, so if I decide to pull the trigger on one of those Streakwave links then I'll need to make sure that I have a reliable mount and a LOS to the other node. I'll certainly get back to you and this group once I nail down a plan here, though I'm not in any particular hurry. Jesse KJ7YLS Sent from ProtonMail mobile \-------- Original Message -------- On May 28, 2021, 12:00 PM, Jamie Hughes < wa7jh@outlook.com> wrote:
Hi Jessie,
I’ve seen the responses so far and I think you deserve a little more.
5 GHz requires unobstructed Line of Sight (LoS) this means if you can’t see it, you can’t work it (reliably). While it is wireless and penetrates through things, the process for going through things causes signal distortion, degradation, attenuation, fading, and multipath. All bad things when dealing with data over the air. Also, not sure what your planned use would be, but HAMWAN isn’t your typical internet service provider.
Out of your options \#1 seems the best, but if those windows are tinted, then, you are SOL.
The LHG HP5 is a great choice: [MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: LHG HP5][MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ LHG HP5]
You will likely desire a mounting option: [ MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: solidMOUNT][MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ solidMOUNT]
I recommend Streakwave
[MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW (streakwave.com)][MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW _streakwave.com] This is the high-power version for $81
[MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG (streakwave.com)][MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG _streakwave.com]: Mount for $27.55
You will need to email a copy of your amateur license to William Book [William.Book@streakwave.com][William.Book_streakwave.com] to prove you’re a ham.
Super easy to work with. Shipping is where they will get you, so be ready for that.
My club runs 3 dishes, all purchased from Streakwave with the help of Bill.
Feel free to reach out direct if you need anything else.
**Jamie Hughes**
WA7JH
Phone: (360) 340-8886
**From:** PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> **On Behalf Of** Jesse Victors via PSDR **Sent:** Friday, May 28, 2021 9:51 AM **To:** psdr <psdr@hamwan.org> **Subject:** \[HamWAN PSDR\] Getting connected to HamWAN
Hey everyone!
HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options.
1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water.
2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: [ https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls][https_www.qrz.com_db_kj7yls] At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine.
3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think.
Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes?
As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition?
Thanks for any advice with this!
Jesse KJ7YLS
[MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ LHG HP5]: https://mikrotik.com/product/RBLHG-5HPnD [MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ solidMOUNT]: https://mikrotik.com/product/solidmount [MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW _streakwave.com]: https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-rblhg-5hpnd-xl-5ghz-lhg-27dbi-802-11an-2... [MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG _streakwave.com]: https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-solidmount-advanced-pole-mount-adapter-f... [William.Book_streakwave.com]: mailto:William.Book@streakwave.com [https_www.qrz.com_db_kj7yls]: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.qrz.com...
As far as point to point, that can be done entirely on Part 15 frequencies and not utilize the amateur spectrum (and thus not be required to comply with amateur rules/limitations). If that is your primary interest, setting it up is relatively easy, and depending on what equipment you use, can achieve short, medium, or very long range links. You can of course also set it up on amateur frequencies if you prefer. If your link distance is fairly short, you can use higher frequency devices. I just set up a 60GHz link which is working flawlessly, over a distance of about 800 feet (and is rated for over twice that distance). The advantage of that is you can get higher bandwidth/thru put than on 5GHz. The disadvantage is it is even more susceptible to any type of blockage, including potentially heavy rain. Carl, N7KUW From: PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> On Behalf Of Jesse Victors via PSDR Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 2:29 PM To: wa7jh@outlook.com; psdr@hamwan.org Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Getting connected to HamWAN Thanks Jamie! I heard about HamWAN several months ago, but I thought about realistic options in connecting to it after getting my license. I'm aware that's its not an ISP, its an interesting data ring for fallback/emergency communications, APRS Internet bridges, connecting the repeaters used in Puget Sound Repeater Group, and other traffic in line with Part 97 rules. It interests from a technical standpoint and my main use case is connecting to the remote cameras discussed on the homepage and learning the process of how to set up a point-to-point link. I might be able to connect my node to my 20TB RAID array and provide storage, if there's such a need after I get connected. I appreciate you posting the links and running through some of the procedures there, much appreciated. I'll look into my options and see what the best mounting solution might be. Certainly a high-gain dish is less tolerant of a wobbly mast than an HF dipole, so if I decide to pull the trigger on one of those Streakwave links then I'll need to make sure that I have a reliable mount and a LOS to the other node. I'll certainly get back to you and this group once I nail down a plan here, though I'm not in any particular hurry. Jesse KJ7YLS Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On May 28, 2021, 12:00 PM, Jamie Hughes < wa7jh@outlook.com <mailto:wa7jh@outlook.com> > wrote: Hi Jessie, I’ve seen the responses so far and I think you deserve a little more. 5 GHz requires unobstructed Line of Sight (LoS) this means if you can’t see it, you can’t work it (reliably). While it is wireless and penetrates through things, the process for going through things causes signal distortion, degradation, attenuation, fading, and multipath. All bad things when dealing with data over the air. Also, not sure what your planned use would be, but HAMWAN isn’t your typical internet service provider. Out of your options #1 seems the best, but if those windows are tinted, then, you are SOL. The LHG HP5 is a great choice: MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: LHG HP5 <https://mikrotik.com/product/RBLHG-5HPnD> You will likely desire a mounting option: MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: solidMOUNT <https://mikrotik.com/product/solidmount> I recommend Streakwave MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW (streakwave.com) <https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-rblhg-5hpnd-xl-5ghz-lhg-27dbi-802-11an-2x2-row> This is the high-power version for $81 MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG (streakwave.com) <https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-solidmount-advanced-pole-mount-adapter-for-lhg> : Mount for $27.55 You will need to email a copy of your amateur license to William Book William.Book@streakwave.com <mailto:William.Book@streakwave.com> to prove you’re a ham. Super easy to work with. Shipping is where they will get you, so be ready for that. My club runs 3 dishes, all purchased from Streakwave with the help of Bill. Feel free to reach out direct if you need anything else. Jamie Hughes WA7JH Phone: <tel:+13603408886> (360) 340-8886 From: PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org <mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> > On Behalf Of Jesse Victors via PSDR Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:51 AM To: psdr <psdr@hamwan.org <mailto:psdr@hamwan.org> > Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] Getting connected to HamWAN Hey everyone! HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options. 1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water. 2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.qrz.com%2Fdb%2Fkj7yls&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3304a5184ed24c1fad6c08d921f8ea6e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637578175237522509%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5xMsIP5GX5dWJYB5p6ypVv97hVe52MvZaZb%2FOeWxc3s%3D&reserved=0> At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine. 3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think. Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes? As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition? Thanks for any advice with this! Jesse KJ7YLS
Hi Jamie, Thanks again for this information. I been weighing some options and I recently plotted the RF path and took at look at the terrain and obstructions. The LHG XL HP5 has a beamwidth of 6.4 degrees, so I drew a plot on a map. As you can see, I've got some trees in the way for the first mile. After I get to the line in red, the elevation drops and I'm completely clear all the way to Haystack. I'm planning on mounting my dish outside on a pole and it will have an elevation of about 35 feet. This should make me clear of rooftops and most obstructions, but I've still got some trees in the way as you can see from my chart. Total distance will be 34 km, elevation change will be +998m, so an upward angle of 1.68 degrees. In your opinion, or if anyone else has more thoughts on this, do you think that the treetops will be a showstopper at that distance or do you think the LHG XL HP5 dish can punch through and get at least 1 Mbits? Any way that I could accurately guess, or do I just need to set it up and find out? Jesse KJ7YLS \-------- Original Message -------- On May 28, 2021, 12:00 PM, Jamie Hughes < wa7jh@outlook.com> wrote:
Hi Jessie,
I’ve seen the responses so far and I think you deserve a little more.
5 GHz requires unobstructed Line of Sight (LoS) this means if you can’t see it, you can’t work it (reliably). While it is wireless and penetrates through things, the process for going through things causes signal distortion, degradation, attenuation, fading, and multipath. All bad things when dealing with data over the air. Also, not sure what your planned use would be, but HAMWAN isn’t your typical internet service provider.
Out of your options \#1 seems the best, but if those windows are tinted, then, you are SOL.
The LHG HP5 is a great choice: [MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: LHG HP5][MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ LHG HP5]
You will likely desire a mounting option: [ MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: solidMOUNT][MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ solidMOUNT]
I recommend Streakwave
[MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW (streakwave.com)][MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW _streakwave.com] This is the high-power version for $81
[MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG (streakwave.com)][MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG _streakwave.com]: Mount for $27.55
You will need to email a copy of your amateur license to William Book [William.Book@streakwave.com][William.Book_streakwave.com] to prove you’re a ham.
Super easy to work with. Shipping is where they will get you, so be ready for that.
My club runs 3 dishes, all purchased from Streakwave with the help of Bill.
Feel free to reach out direct if you need anything else.
**Jamie Hughes**
WA7JH
Phone: (360) 340-8886
**From:** PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> **On Behalf Of** Jesse Victors via PSDR **Sent:** Friday, May 28, 2021 9:51 AM **To:** psdr <psdr@hamwan.org> **Subject:** \[HamWAN PSDR\] Getting connected to HamWAN
Hey everyone!
HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options.
1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water.
2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: [ https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls][https_www.qrz.com_db_kj7yls] At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine.
3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think.
Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes?
As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition?
Thanks for any advice with this!
Jesse KJ7YLS
[MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ LHG HP5]: https://mikrotik.com/product/RBLHG-5HPnD [MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ solidMOUNT]: https://mikrotik.com/product/solidmount [MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW _streakwave.com]: https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-rblhg-5hpnd-xl-5ghz-lhg-27dbi-802-11an-2... [MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG _streakwave.com]: https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-solidmount-advanced-pole-mount-adapter-f... [William.Book_streakwave.com]: mailto:William.Book@streakwave.com [https_www.qrz.com_db_kj7yls]: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.qrz.com...
For that long a shot, the trees will absolutely be a total show stopper. You must have true, real, actual, (look through binoculars and see) line of sight. You can shoot through trees for a ¼ mile or so, but not for 20+ miles. There is one other consideration, the Fresnel zone. That is a cigar shaped elliptical around the center true line of sight that should also be clear. In the case of your shot, the Fresnel zone has a roughly 68 foot radius, which means your line of site shot should be 68 feet above the tree tops. For the distance of your shot I would recommend the Dynadish5 as the absolute minimum, and possibly the mANT30 dish with associated routerboard. The LHG mesh background just doesn’t have the gain you will need. Carl, N7KUW From: PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> On Behalf Of Jesse Victors via PSDR Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 12:31 PM To: wa7jh@outlook.com; psdr@hamwan.org Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Getting connected to HamWAN Hi Jamie, Thanks again for this information. I been weighing some options and I recently plotted the RF path and took at look at the terrain and obstructions. The LHG XL HP5 has a beamwidth of 6.4 degrees, so I drew a plot on a map. As you can see, I've got some trees in the way for the first mile. After I get to the line in red, the elevation drops and I'm completely clear all the way to Haystack. I'm planning on mounting my dish outside on a pole and it will have an elevation of about 35 feet. This should make me clear of rooftops and most obstructions, but I've still got some trees in the way as you can see from my chart. Total distance will be 34 km, elevation change will be +998m, so an upward angle of 1.68 degrees. In your opinion, or if anyone else has more thoughts on this, do you think that the treetops will be a showstopper at that distance or do you think the LHG XL HP5 dish can punch through and get at least 1 Mbits? Any way that I could accurately guess, or do I just need to set it up and find out? Jesse KJ7YLS -------- Original Message -------- On May 28, 2021, 12:00 PM, Jamie Hughes < wa7jh@outlook.com <mailto:wa7jh@outlook.com> > wrote: Hi Jessie, I’ve seen the responses so far and I think you deserve a little more. 5 GHz requires unobstructed Line of Sight (LoS) this means if you can’t see it, you can’t work it (reliably). While it is wireless and penetrates through things, the process for going through things causes signal distortion, degradation, attenuation, fading, and multipath. All bad things when dealing with data over the air. Also, not sure what your planned use would be, but HAMWAN isn’t your typical internet service provider. Out of your options #1 seems the best, but if those windows are tinted, then, you are SOL. The LHG HP5 is a great choice: MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: LHG HP5 <https://mikrotik.com/product/RBLHG-5HPnD> You will likely desire a mounting option: MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: solidMOUNT <https://mikrotik.com/product/solidmount> I recommend Streakwave MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW (streakwave.com) <https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-rblhg-5hpnd-xl-5ghz-lhg-27dbi-802-11an-2x2-row> This is the high-power version for $81 MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG (streakwave.com) <https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-solidmount-advanced-pole-mount-adapter-for-lhg> : Mount for $27.55 You will need to email a copy of your amateur license to William Book William.Book@streakwave.com <mailto:William.Book@streakwave.com> to prove you’re a ham. Super easy to work with. Shipping is where they will get you, so be ready for that. My club runs 3 dishes, all purchased from Streakwave with the help of Bill. Feel free to reach out direct if you need anything else. Jamie Hughes WA7JH Phone: <tel:+13603408886> (360) 340-8886 From: PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org <mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> > On Behalf Of Jesse Victors via PSDR Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:51 AM To: psdr <psdr@hamwan.org <mailto:psdr@hamwan.org> > Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] Getting connected to HamWAN Hey everyone! HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options. 1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water. 2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.qrz.com%2Fdb%2Fkj7yls&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3304a5184ed24c1fad6c08d921f8ea6e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637578175237522509%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5xMsIP5GX5dWJYB5p6ypVv97hVe52MvZaZb%2FOeWxc3s%3D&reserved=0> At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine. 3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think. Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes? As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition? Thanks for any advice with this! Jesse KJ7YLS
Thanks Carl, Hmm. I was really hoping that this would work. I've got that scattering of trees for the first 1/3 mile and a little bit around the 1 mile marker, but it still might be too much as you say. I have significant space for the Fresnel zone past the 1-mile marker, the constraints are just at the end here. I might have to see if I have better options then. The LHG XL HG5 has a diameter of 21 inches and a gain of 27 dBi as described https://www.streakwave.com/amfile/file/download/file/9446/product/28503/ and I was hoping that the larger diameter, higher gain, and higher power dish would help. I had compared this to the 16in diameter and 25 dBi gain of the DynaDish 5, but maybe the mesh makes a bigger difference in ways that I don't understand yet. Thanks again Jesse KJ7YLS \-------- Original Message -------- On Jun 29, 2021, 12:39 PM, < carl@n7kuw.com> wrote:
For that long a shot, the trees will absolutely be a total show stopper. You must have true, real, actual, (look through binoculars and see) line of sight. You can shoot through trees for a ¼ mile or so, but not for 20+ miles. There is one other consideration, the Fresnel zone. That is a cigar shaped elliptical around the center true line of sight that should also be clear. In the case of your shot, the Fresnel zone has a roughly 68 foot radius, which means your line of site shot should be 68 feet above the tree tops.
For the distance of your shot I would recommend the Dynadish5 as the absolute minimum, and possibly the mANT30 dish with associated routerboard. The LHG mesh background just doesn’t have the gain you will need.
Carl, N7KUW
**From:** PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> On Behalf Of Jesse Victors via PSDR **Sent:** Tuesday, June 29, 2021 12:31 PM **To:** wa7jh@outlook.com; psdr@hamwan.org **Subject:** Re: \[HamWAN PSDR\] Getting connected to HamWAN
Hi Jamie,
Thanks again for this information. I been weighing some options and I recently plotted the RF path and took at look at the terrain and obstructions. The LHG XL HP5 has a beamwidth of 6.4 degrees, so I drew a plot on a map. As you can see, I've got some trees in the way for the first mile. After I get to the line in red, the elevation drops and I'm completely clear all the way to Haystack. I'm planning on mounting my dish outside on a pole and it will have an elevation of about 35 feet. This should make me clear of rooftops and most obstructions, but I've still got some trees in the way as you can see from my chart. Total distance will be 34 km, elevation change will be +998m, so an upward angle of 1.68 degrees.
In your opinion, or if anyone else has more thoughts on this, do you think that the treetops will be a showstopper at that distance or do you think the LHG XL HP5 dish can punch through and get at least 1 Mbits? Any way that I could accurately guess, or do I just need to set it up and find out?
Jesse KJ7YLS
\-------- Original Message -------- On May 28, 2021, 12:00 PM, Jamie Hughes < [wa7jh@outlook.com][wa7jh_outlook.com]> wrote:
Hi Jessie,
I’ve seen the responses so far and I think you deserve a little more.
5 GHz requires unobstructed Line of Sight (LoS) this means if you can’t see it, you can’t work it (reliably). While it is wireless and penetrates through things, the process for going through things causes signal distortion, degradation, attenuation, fading, and multipath. All bad things when dealing with data over the air. Also, not sure what your planned use would be, but HAMWAN isn’t your typical internet service provider.
Out of your options \#1 seems the best, but if those windows are tinted, then, you are SOL.
The LHG HP5 is a great choice: [MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: LHG HP5][MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ LHG HP5]
You will likely desire a mounting option: [MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: solidMOUNT][MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ solidMOUNT]
I recommend Streakwave
[MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW (streakwave.com)][MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW _streakwave.com] This is the high-power version for $81
[MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG (streakwave.com)][MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG _streakwave.com]: Mount for $27.55
You will need to email a copy of your amateur license to William Book [William.Book@streakwave.com][William.Book_streakwave.com] to prove you’re a ham.
Super easy to work with. Shipping is where they will get you, so be ready for that.
My club runs 3 dishes, all purchased from Streakwave with the help of Bill.
Feel free to reach out direct if you need anything else.
**Jamie Hughes**
WA7JH
Phone: (360) 340-8886
**From:** PSDR <[psdr-bounces@hamwan.org][psdr-bounces_hamwan.org]> On Behalf Of Jesse Victors via PSDR **Sent:** Friday, May 28, 2021 9:51 AM **To:** psdr <[psdr@hamwan.org][psdr_hamwan.org]> **Subject:** \[HamWAN PSDR\] Getting connected to HamWAN
Hey everyone!
HamWAN has been on my radar for a couple months and I wanted to get connected. I have a couple options.
1) if 5 GHz can pass through double-paned glass, then I could point an antenna through the window from my work office in downtown Seattle, connecting with the hubs nearby or across the water.
2) if 5 GHz can pass through tree leaves, I could mount the dish on the mast holding the center of my HF fan dipole, as shown here: [https://www.qrz.com/db/kj7yls][https_www.qrz.com_db_kj7yls] At a height of 30 feet it might be able to connect with Paine.
3) if 5 GHz can pass through a thin piece of plywood and tree leaves, I could mount the antenna in my attic. That should be tall enough to jump over my neighbors house I think.
Which of these would work? I'm leaning towards the first option. The second would work but it would just be more logistically difficult. I believe the third option would suffer significant signal degradation, yes?
As far as antennas go, the LHG 5 seems to have pretty good performance, is within my hobby budget, and should work for the links that I have in mind, yes? It should also be lighter and more wind-resistant since its hollow. I should be able to mount that on a pole, connect PoE, and then work on the routing, correct? If this is a decent choice, where is a good place to order the International edition?
Thanks for any advice with this!
Jesse KJ7YLS
[wa7jh_outlook.com]: mailto:wa7jh@outlook.com [MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ LHG HP5]: https://mikrotik.com/product/RBLHG-5HPnD [MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products_ solidMOUNT]: https://mikrotik.com/product/solidmount [MikroTik RBLHG-5HPnD-XL 5GHz LHG 27dBi 802.11an 2x2 ROW _streakwave.com]: https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-rblhg-5hpnd-xl-5ghz-lhg-27dbi-802-11an-2... [MikroTik solidMOUNT Advanced Pole Mount Adapter for LHG _streakwave.com]: https://www.streakwave.com/mikrotik-solidmount-advanced-pole-mount-adapter-f... [William.Book_streakwave.com]: mailto:William.Book@streakwave.com [psdr-bounces_hamwan.org]: mailto:psdr-bounces@hamwan.org [psdr_hamwan.org]: mailto:psdr@hamwan.org [https_www.qrz.com_db_kj7yls]: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.qrz.com...
participants (6)
-
Bart Kus -
carl＠n7kuw.com -
Dean Gibson AE7Q -
Jamie Hughes -
Jesse Victors -
kg7sxf